Keith Richards Inviting Bill Wyman and Mick Taylor to Rolling Stones Jam Sessions, Looks Back at 'Some Girls,' Heroin Addiction

When Keith Richards calls Spinner on a rainy Wednesday evening, he's in a jovial mood. The Rolling Stones are about to release a deluxe edition of their 1978 classic album 'Some Girls' on Nov. 21 and Keef recently revealed that he'll be jamming with bandmates Ronnie Wood and Charlie Watts in London. The big question is still whether or not Mick Jagger will join them for a tour next year in honor of their 50th anniversary -- and if Richards has his way, the band will be out there, possibly with more than just the current lineup. In this candid interview, the rock legend speaks -- in his trademark warm, raspy way -- about the band's future, his memories of recording 'Some Girls,' his well-publicized heroin addiction, his 1977 arrest in Toronto for drug trafficking, the inspiration for 'Beast of Burden' and his award-winning memoir, 'Life.'

When do you start those jam sessions with Ronnie and Charlie?

The idea is to go in December. I said, "Jesus Christ, we haven't played together for a couple of years. We better get our chops together." So it basically is just like that, it's just a jam.

Are you planning on playing Stones songs or maybe just some blues jams?

Playing anything. I can't tell you. I'm not Nostradamus, my friend. I ain't telling you anything about that because I know nothing except we're just going to play.

Any sign of Mick coming?

Of course. I mean, everybody's welcome. I was going to ask Bill Wyman to come by too. And Mick Taylor. The whole lot. They're all Stones, you know? Why not?

So, with the 'Some Girls' reissue, how involved were you in digging through the archives?

Well, pretty much the same as Mick. We went with what we could find. It took us a while to actually find the master tapes, but after that it was pretty easy. 'Claudine,' I wished, and I think all of us did at the time, that that should have been on the original album, but there was some legal difficulties and stuff. But otherwise, she was a perfect 'Some Girl.' [Ed. note: The song deals with actress Claudine Longet, who was charged with fatally shooting her boyfriend and sentenced to 30 days in jail]


What memories of the recording sessions does this bring back? In your book, you talked about sleeping in the studio at some point and getting woken up by a police band who were also recording there.

Yeah, I did. But that was nothing really. I woke up with the police band playing [laughs]. I crept out as quietly as possible.

They were long sessions, some of them. I mean, we wouldn't start until midnight. It was just Paris. Everybody would have dinner first and then wind their way to the studio around midnight so then you would go on until whenever. For all I know, the sun was always up when I went out [laughs].

And you decided to do it as a live-band recording with minimal overdubs.

Yeah, it was a deliberate idea of Mick and I to strip the band back down to basics. And also, it was the first full album that I was doing with Ronnie, so we were all feeling our way in that respect. We were just getting into each other's way of playing on this stuff. To me, I remember it as a load of fun, but I'm sure some other people might have other ideas [laughs].

Was there natural connection between you and Ronnie?

Yeah, it was. That was one of the joys of it. Every session we'd go to, every day -- and we were there a long time -- Ronnie and I realized we were finding a way to play together. As Ronnie calls it, the ancient form of weaving. You don't know which guitar is doing what. And that's the joy of playing with two guitars or three, the interaction. I remember it as a fun album to make.

Even in spite of your trial for heroin trafficking in Toronto?

Oh, man, yeah. I mean, I think that's what actually made it more fun. Once I was in the studio, I could forget all the several indictments that were hanging over my head [laughs]. Just send them away. That's what music can do, I guess. At the same time, I was never particularly concerned about the outcome of any of these things. I just felt that the people wouldn't put me in jail, you know? [Laughs]

Did that add to urgency of the songs? A good portion of the album is fast and tense.

Yeah, I was thinking about it when I was listening to it the last few weeks. There might have been a sort of "better get this in before they put you in" [laughs]. There's nothing like the possibility of going to jail to really get you going.

That charge was really serious. Did you think at any point that this might have been the end for the Stones?

It could go either way, let's put it like that. I was prepared for one or the other, but I just had faith in the people out there. I might be dopey, but I was right.

And then you wrote a song about it, 'Before They Make Me Run.'

It came fairly easily. Once I got through the work in the bars and the stuff, it probably took me a week. I would sort of do a verse a day, slowly add to it. But I wasn't conscious of it being particularly autobiographical. I just thought it was an interesting story. But sometimes what's close to you, you don't see.

And it became an important track for you. You were there for five days working on it.

Yeah, my engineer nearly died. He got a medal for that one.

During these sessions, you were able to do some great work while using heroin.

Yeah, this was my last record on that stuff. It was an experiment that went on too long. But I was almost on the tail end of it when we were cutting this album. Although I've never felt ... it's kind of like when they talk about Charlie Parker and that saxophone players would go on the stuff because that's what they thought made Charlie Parker so great. It doesn't [make you] play any better. It just gives you a different point of view on things. And the biggest point of view is to get the hell out of here [laughs].

A lot of the songs were very inspired by New York. How much of that was your doing?

Mine and a lot of Mick's too. We were both living in the city for quite a while in '76 and '75, and hey, you know what the city's like -- it rubs off on you. We just happened to record it in Paris but I think we carried New York to Paris.

And the disco era came in with 'Miss You.'

Well, at the time, it was the disco beat. To me, it was like the twist or something. It was a variation on rhythm and blues grooves, and I really didn't think one way or the other about it. Mick was hitting the clubs a lot then so he was very much into that beat, the four on the floor and we just thought we'd give it a try. It wasn't like "Let's make a disco record." We don't arrive at decision in that way. It's "Hey, I heard this groove. Let's check this out." It just sort of happened.

Just like how you guys got into reggae.

Yeah, very much the same way. You fall into it. Suddenly you've got the feel for it and you want to know how it's done and you check it out. It's like Second Line, New Orleans music, straight rock 'n' roll: Every different beat is fodder [laughs].

What else about your life in New York do you feel got into this album?

You know, I've lived in New York quite a lot. I'm sort of an honorary member. I love the city, especially the Village. I record a lot down there, so I'm in and out of that joint all the time. I love the energy of New York. I'm recording with Steve Jordan, we're doing some Winos thing, [aka X-Pensive Winos, Keith's side project] just by ourselves. It's an interesting experiment.

What can you reveal about the project?

It's reminiscent of Winos but at the same time, it's 20 years on. How can you describe music? But there's some damn good stuff coming out. Steve and I are having a lot of fun and some great guys have been dropping by. Aaron Neville came by and did stuff, Ivan Neville came by.

Any chance you'll get Tom Waits to repay you for your work on his new album, 'Bad as Me'?

Oh, Tom, that was a great session. Did that in one afternoon down in Chinatown. I love working with Tom. You never know what he's going to hit you with. There is that element of "Come on, surprise me" between the two of us.

To get back to 'Some Girls,' I've read that you wrote 'Beast of Burden' as kind of a way to talk about the struggles you had with drugs in the '70s, as sort of an apology to Mick. Is that accurate?

Only to a point, because a lot of the song was written by Mick. I said, "This is called 'Beast of Burden'" and I gave him the first verse. That's the way we often work. "The song goes like this. Hey Mick, take it away." And he we would do amazing things with it. I mean, the impetus was from that stuff. but then I wanted Mick to get his input in. That's the beauty of songwriting.

Do you have a favorite track on the album?

Wow, man. That's rough, always when it comes to favorites. 'Beast of Burden' is probably the one that will come straight to mind. It has a great sound and I thought the band was playing really good. And the other thing I noticed about listening back to 'Some Girls' is how incredible Billy Wyman's bass playing is. Maybe it's because of the remixing and you hear it more but I was astounded by Bill's bass. I loved it. I miss the old sod.

When was the last time you spent time together?

I saw him last year I think, somewhere in London, briefly. We're in touch now and again. He sends me notes. Hey, maybe we'll still get together, you know?

How about Ronnie? Do you guys spend a lot of time together still?

Oh yeah, sure. My basic thing is that he, Charlie and I are going to work together. Just go in and see if we can warm our chops up. And of course everyone else is welcome. Mick Taylor's welcome. I don't see why everybody who was a Stone shouldn't be involved.

So what do you want to achieve with the 50th anniversary?

I want to pull it off. That, at the moment, is my task.

It must be somewhat of a logistical nightmare.

Well, we'll find out. I usually find that logistical nightmares can always be overcome if everyone wants to get together.

Ronnie's had his battles with sobriety, but I've read that you also quit drinking in support of him. Is that true?

As far as I know, he's been off of the stuff for about a year.

Is it true that you're off too?

I don't want to talk about it. I don't consider myself an alcoholic. I have a drink when I want to and that's it. I don't really think about it. It's other people that think about it, so I don't really want to talk about it.

You just won a Mailer Award for 'Life.' What was that like?

Oh, yes, I was with President Clinton. A great double act.

What's your relationship with him like?

We only meet infrequently. I happened to meet him down in the islands, Parrot Cay, because he had rented a house next door so I went by. We have a great time. Bill is all right. He plays sax, you know, and he's a pretty regular guy for being President.

Are you surprised at all the accolades for the book?

Yeah, that was astounding. I had no idea this book was going to such proportions. I figured there'd be some interest, obviously, but it's been astounding, yes. It's been award after award. I'm working the red carpets like a motherf---er.

Now that you're a best-selling author, can we expect more writing from you?

I don't know. I might write one called 'Death.' [Laughs]

Listen to 'No Spare Parts'